Monday, November 10, 2008

Dating or Disaster?

How many of you are out there trying to date 'single men only' now? (PLEASE don't tell me you are still trying to date married ones!!)  How many of you feel like giving up on ever finding 'the one'?  Don't you find it's so hard, and so time consuming?  At least with the MM's we knew what they wanted (sex), and what drove them and stimulated them (sex), and when they would be available to make plans and meet up with us (for sex), but, these single creatures are another kettle of fish all together!  I did write in an earlier blog, that I was 'having fun dating single guys,' well, that was yesterday, as we say in the business, and, this is today!

I even recently tried online dating (yep, I really was sad enough to succumb to it) because as you know, I too am trying to stay on the wagon and date ONLY single men.  Trying to lead by example and all that. However, after a few more dating experiences since the last time I wrote, I am now convinced that all the best men really are married, or gay, or both!!!  

At first glance of an online dating site, there is so much choice it's like being in a candy shop; However, as with candy, if you have too much of it you feel utterly sick.  So, after sorting the online wheat from the chaff, I did meet a few nice chaps (in L.A.) whom I thought at the time had some potential....however, after doing some more D.D. (as I tell you all to do sisters) I realized I had been duped, and that they were misrepresenting themselves on every level (but not - as far as I know anyway - married at least!).  I guess I should have twigged when some of them turned up looking nothing like their photos on their profile...I mean, if they were going to lie about their height (Note: ALWAYS take 2-3 inches off whatever height they say they are) and how they looked (by posting photos of themselves 10 years ago when they actually had hair) then why wouldn't they lie about other stuff too!  

The most annoying thing for me, is wasting time, and I can see that dating single guys can be a colossal waste of time.  Trying to navigate a single man's agenda can be a full time job - who needs that? (With MM's we know their agenda; yep, you got it, sex).  Often with the single ones you can spend weeks getting to know them, only to find they turn out to be liars and waste-of-space-con-men in the end. Ugh! (At least with the MMs we know that up front, LOL)

We'll be coming up to the festive season soon - and 'all it has to offer.' Right now, all it has to offer is a few meals for one, and some emotional numbing chardonnay...(aka a vacation in a bottle - especially at this time of year!).  But, maybe when I've got some party celebrations under my little Gucci belt, things will change.  I like to think I am ever the optimist.

Send me some of your dating stories - whether disastrous or delightful - I'd love to compare notes.  Since I am off men for a while, and certainly won't be trying online dating again anytime soon,  let me live vicariously through you and your stories for a while.  

Sarah J.


Anonymous said...

Hello Sarah
I read your book when it first came out. I understand that the book is about being the other woman. How about me. I'm the other man. Are there any other men who are with MW? Do you have advice about being with a MW? I've been dating the MW for four years. I've been promised so many things so many times. I've finally started dating other women.
As far as dating other women...the stories I could tell you. The last two were disasters. We did the usual dinner, drinks, and getting to know each other. Please women when you are asking questions of us don't ask us if we would like to get married or how much money we have or make. That always puts up a red flag. The subject of sex came up on both dates. Please tell me if this is normal. Both women commented on how they liked a guy to be rough with them and talk dirty to them in bed. I was brought up to respect women. Please tell me your comments about this.
I agree about the dating sites that the people you meet use outdated pictures and lie about their looks. One lady I didn't even recognize and she had to come up to me and introduce herself. WOW! The picture she had on the site must have been from 20 years earlier. If the people you meet on the sites are giving you the wrong information before your first date, how could you ever trust them in the future?
So please Sarah help me. What am I doing wrong?

Sarah J. Symonds said...

Dearest "R" Thank you for writing. How lovely to hear from a man on my blog :-) Well, my advice to you, as it generically would be to the "other woman" as well, would be to get out. You have been in this holding pattern for four years now R - don't you think you deserve more? Deserve someone who isn't just keeping you on the side while she weighs up her options, all while living in a fairly high degree of emotional fraud..

It must feel like you are living two lives - one as yourself - and one as someone who goes along with this lady's plans. Trust me, I should know, I have been there!

I think it is time that you took over the wheel R, and finally drive this bus. It took me a while to do so, but once you enable yourself to demand more than a second rate relationship, and tell the other person involved just that, it is SO empowering. Doesn't mean you won't be sad of course, pain is part of the human condition, and I am sure if you have lived in this relationship - of three people - for so long, that you have had your fair share of pain? The Christmases spent alone? The empty promises, the lies and the recriminations? The jealousy? We have all been there. But that is what happens when you choose to live life being "the other person." It is horrid!!!

R - I hope you were able to flip everything in my book around to suit your personal circumstances, because in the end, it is a book that is meant to wake people up, and send messages of empowerment, so I know you will relate as much as the women I actually write for.

As for you dating - that is GOOD. Tedious I know, and based on some of the episodes you shared with me here, I am sure you want to give up, and stay with the devil you know (aka "MW") because change is hard, and the fear of being alone is hard (why do you think so many of the married people we have had relationships with, and talk about here on my site, don't actually leave their spouses? Fear is a very compelling emotion you know..)

All I can say R is keep doing what you are doing. You will find a decent woman if you truly keep your eyes and heart open to dating. I am in the same boat - so hard to find decent people these days that you can have chemistry with, and on an intellectual level. It definitely gets harder as we get older, since our standards, and our criteria gets way higher!

As for talking about sex on the first dates? Well, all I can say is that times have changed. We know that. Since we tend to now live in a society where anything goes, with no respect for boundaries, the topics of conversation tend to go with it. You sound like a gent, so if the type of women you are meeting are not for you, you have already learned something by identifying that. That is why I say dating is never REALLY wasted - even the BAD ones, since you learn what you do NOT want and seek harder to find what you DO want. I hope you will hold out for someone with your values and your level of conversation and not 'just exist' in the holding pattern of the MW's life...because she will let you if that is what you are willing to settle for.

However, conversely, if you truly believe that you do want to be with MW - then she needs to be accountable and give you some dates and commit to plans and a timeframe of when things will be in place for you two to have an open, honest life together. I wait to hear from you on that R, and sadly, won't hold my breath!

Keep the faith and stay strong,
Sarah J.

Anonymous said...

Timeframes...commitment...nope that is not gonna work. I agree with you Sarah- if there will be any promise of a date where the MM and the other woman can be finally together this is going to be just another broken promice. I've been there, done that... When you try to impose timelines on the MM it is only for your own sanity and it is nothing but some kind of sick and weak attempt of justification as to "why the hell am I still in this poisonous relationship??!" Deep down inside we never believe that it could ever work, that MM would keep up his is only a stupid excuse to be with him a little bit longer because we love him and just can't let it go even tho we have realized long time ago it slowly kills us piece by by day...everyday..

And then something happens...and it always happens in the most dramatic and heartbreaking way...and what then... you hate but silently still love...
It has been almost a year for me since the "the end" but isn't that sick that I still keep track of how long has it been since I have seen him last? Is that normal that I would still think of him - sometimes good...mostly bad- but yet still THINKING about him..

Anonymous said...

Is this story true?

Cor you're nice said...

Hello Gordon's fk buddy!

Anonymous said...

Oops is getting caught out by a red topped sunday paper not a bad move for a mistress?

Anonymous said...

I'm jealous as hell!!!!

Anonymous said...

"He used me shamelessly like all the others. He told me he needed help in his campaign but all he wanted was sex." That's all you can give. They dont want kids with you, they dont want to be around you 24/7, that's what wives are for, mistresses are for fucking.

Anonymous said...

LOL - Poor Wife and Kids left to pick up the pieces before xmas, nice one

Anonymous said...

The pool of single men can be amazingly frustrating. There never seems to be a balance in the level of interest. If you're only interested in him for sex he wants a relationship, and if you want a relationship he's distant, and if he wants to get married you want to move on. It's an endless dance, and the most successful relationship I ever had was with a gaelic rugby player who didn't want a relationship. I had just had my heart truly broken and needed a distraction. We had amazing sex, NO neediness, and we had fun together. But the romantic lovey dovey feelings were never there. And it didn't matter for a second.

Anonymous said...


You are a smart lady - as long as you don't get hurt, I say.

Whatever makes you happy.

Wishing you much future success.

Anonymous said...

As a woman who has just discovered that my husband is with another woman, I ask all the "mistresses" out there if you ever consider the feelings of the wife and (in my case) children.
I now have to explain to my 5 yr old why daddy and mummy aren't going to live together anymore. Sell my house and all this 4 weeks before Christmas.
I think you all need to do some serious soul searching and work out why you are in these relationships. If there marriages were really that bad then the MM wouldn't be married!!! If he is just "waiting for the right time to tell her" then you should back off, expect nothing more from the relationship and move on. If he really loves you he will leave his wife and you can start your lives together without the lies and deceiptful start.

EmmaK said...

I can't help feeling sorry for Gordon even though he does look like a shar pei....well we know why he has that hang dog expression now

Anonymous said...

I just found this site, and will be running out to buy the book - pronto!

I'm both..the married woman being cheated on, and the other woman. But, I'm happy....isn't that strange? I was always the uptight monogomy lecturer, and now I've come to the conclusion that monogamy is a ridiculous concept. You should see the looks I get when I say that out loud!

Anonymous said...


Its me, (mistress in training), living in London! I thought I'd give a little update from your old neck of the woods.
MM pulled over off the street in his talk to me. He asked if I had a phone number...I said no. He asked if I had an email address, I said no. He asked if he could take me out for a drink, I said no. And finally, he gave up, and put his car back on the street, and kept driving.
1. I felt like a prostitute because he approached me from a vehicle while I stood on the side walk.
2. After he asked for my number and I said no, you'd think he'd get the hint.
3. I have a lovely Canadian boy back home now, he's sweet, kind, and most importantly...single.


Anonymous said...

Who knows what goes on behind "closed doors" This affair with GR is no-one's business but the people involved. Leave them alone to get on with soting out their lives.

Lucy said...

I was involved with a MM for 13 years. Eventually he left his wife for me.
I think that the current news stories are very one-sided. I am hoping we will hear more from you.

Wishing you the best


Harri said...

Hi Sarah..
I read one interview or rather a review of your book, although it struck me a bit as a hatchet job on you.

First of all, I d like to say this: There can actually be different truths about the same thing.

Yes ..the wife gets hurt a lot and Yes!The mistress doesn't care, she rationalises her betrayal of the sister by saying to herself "Well..she ain 't my sister!My female friend neither!"

But the real culprit is the man.

I think 'Yeah They all just want to have a lot of cake! Cake being the trophy wife/mistress/ beauty queen... to show off to others and the sex..

Well I agree with you: They should at leat PAY for that , then!

we spend inordinate amounts of time and money oon being wanted by them!

And No... Does that make the mistress a prostitute?

Hey who's in bed with mafia who is bed with organised crime rings who runs THAT SHOW?

Men or women?
Come on sisters The answer is CLEAR

If yr book is about self empowerment ..then that can only be good.

You re right Women should be more like men.

Like :Override their emotions when its a better thing to do so!
I am now nearly 50, i have almost totally given up on the male of the species whom I consider to be EVIL.

Charming and exciting ..a bit like rattlesnakes, really!

But would you crawl under the covers with one?
Again, sisters, you don' t need a PhD or indeed ME to answer that.

Yr tips are good! I havent read the book yet ,though...

Fair play to you though!
But a world where everything is designed by man and designed to please men....Give them grief!
We get too much grief of them..the times they are achanging...

And never forget they are snakes!

Ps : I met a young guy on the Internet site Meetic who had put"seperated" as his status.

Afterwards we were together the second time round,carnally getting to know each other and a good time was had by all concerned
He was rather accomplished...mustave done this before!

After we 'd met the first day round.. of course I was stoopid enough to have fallen head over heels for him..I got the impression he wanted a medal already for saying there that he was "seperated"..however he still lived with his wife

Heres the crunch we are too nice ,women!

When he said i could verify HIS version with his wife by phone..i politely declined

Well I shouldn t have!

Sisters as old fashioned as this may sound:Make demands on the feckers... if they don' t fulfill them..leave!

Because if they don t even oblige you in the 1st flush of lust then they NEVER WILL.

Isn 't it reasonable to assume this?

And not to "FORGET"it?? every time a guy waves his dick at us, pretending lifelong companionship , deep soul kinship..etc?

Ps: the thing is not big enough it? Only a few inches...a A vibrator is generally speaking more reliable and disasters can be avoided by hoarding BATTERIES.



but ..he stood me up..half a dozen times more than anybody else ever done b4, and when i demanded of him to never ever do this again or it would be over ..he didn t .
Concur , I mean.

So...that was how it was.
Over I mean.

And couldn t i havve spared myself another broken heart listening to my inner voice at the beginning?

The one that said:he might be lying..he ll probabaly never commit..

YES...I could have!
so sisters out there
Your emotional safety comes first!


Get thru life without hoping for sth that aint going to happen...And although I have no experienec of truly reciprocal love in even 5o years..maybe it could happen
When and If it happens it will be great
But maybe taking up Kite Flying (not without its risks I admit) or bungee jping or saving sb from disaster or being appreciated for yr kindness by sb could also be a lot of fun.
We all die in the end and fun is more important than stupidly clinging to other people's norms and conventions.

But solidarity between sisters is the mainly forgotten art of combining that whats right with that what ultimately makes sense !!!!

Because collective bargaining is the ONLY thing that ever challenged and that ever changed anything in history and in the future ,too!

fantastic said...

I just found you Sarah... thanks for your work. I'm a mistress and have been gradually realising how toxic this is for me.

So I'm trying to meet a genuinely available Mr. Right and am dipping my toe in the online dating waters. First date last week - nice guy, but not my MM. I'm seeing him next week, he's overseas a lot, and I'm wondering if I can end it now. Or not? We some time with no contact not long ago, and I missed him in the most painful way.

I'm definitely about to buy your book...

best wishes - keep your chin up -

J xx

PS Lucy - 13 years? I'm glad you've had a happy ending. I have been with my MM on and off for 5 years.

Anonymous said...

Sarah, One question I ran into while reading your book...How to interpret and deal with the MM actually saying and apparently meaning "I Love You"? Not I Love Ya or ever stating it in bed. Hard core look in the eyes I Love You.

sarah J. Symonds said...

Dear Anonymous "I love you question Mistress" - you have to know that when he says it, it is HIS version of "I love you." I am not saying he is not fond of you, and enjoys spending time with you, but come on, if he 'Loved you" in the way you'd like (reading between the lines of your comments) then he would be with you, and you only. He would make the moves to create a life with the woman he loves: Therefor, to sum up, it really is all BS!! Make sense?

Keep the faith
Sarah J.

Anonymous said...

From: "I love you question Mistress" - Thanks for the clarifictation. I dumped the jerk this week and that was my only nagging question. Turns out when I let him go I saw some qualities in him that were not too attractive making it easier for me be done with this. Emotional manipulation is not an attractive trait!

Love your book! Will be giving it as gift to good friend!